The Loud Cry responds to Nicholas's GCSDA.htm page
The Loud Cry
responds to Omega Ministries
Reply from the Ellen G. White Estate regarding letters I wrote them
Reply from the Voice of Prophecy
What Constitutes Babylon according to Ellen G. White
Babylon and the Remnant Church by Ellen G. White
General
Conference is not Babylon by David M. Curtis
S.D.A Church not Babylon by Ellen G. White
Restlessness and Accusation by Ellen G. White
David M. Curtis & Nicholas Letters about the General Conference
Looking for more info on this subject?
Sister White writes about attacking Roman Catholics
more to come...
    |
Is there a Message to Leave the
“Corporate”
Seventh Day Adventist
“General Conference?” NO!
Written by Mrs. Ellen G. White
Compiled by David M. Curtis
Forward
During the summer of 2003 I had a conversation with a friend in Australia who is an independent SDA. He shared with me the first four quotations in this article. The following is the results of my research to reply to these statements. I am sharing this article with Jan Marcussen of the National Sunday Law book, Bob Trefz of World Radio Mission, Steps to Life, Pastor Nathan Quick, Christian Berdahl, Danny Vierra, and many many other friends who are Independent “Historic SDA” and believe we should leave the Seventh Day Adventist “GC.” These people have blessed many others and myself over the years and I count them all as brothers and friends. I am hoping to get replies from all these people concerning this compilation. Please feel free to copy this and share it with as many others as possible. If you need a copy e-mailed to you please contact me at the e-mail address above. David M. CurtisNote added September 24, 2004: None of the men and groups listed above have answered the specifics of this compilation yet ...September 24, 2004. Still waiting for replies from anyone...
Note added November 18, 2004, Nicholas of Presents of God Ministries is now added to a lengthy list of independent ministries refusing to reply to quotes you are about to read. Nicholas Exposed CLICK HERE
The General Conference is itself becoming corrupted with wrong sentiments and principles. . . . Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms; they would rule or ruin. . . . The high-handed power that has been developed, as though position has made men gods, makes me afraid, and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 359-361 (1895).
The voice from Battle Creek, which has been regarded as authority in counseling how the work should be done, is no longer the voice of God.--17MR 185 (1896).
It has been some years since I have considered the General Conference as the voice of God.--17MR 216 (1898).
That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past.--GCB April 3, 1901, p. 25.
At times, when a small group of men entrusted with the general management of the work have, in the name of the General Conference, sought to carry out unwise plans to restrict God's work, I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference, represented by these few men, as the voice of God. But this is not saying that the decisions of a General Conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed, representative men from all parts of the field should not be respected. God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has invested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.--9T 260, 261 (1909).
New Conferences must be formed. It was in the order of God that the Union conference was organized in Australasia. . . . It is not necessary to send thousands of miles to Battle Creek for advice, and then have to wait weeks for an answer. Those who are right on the ground are to decide what shall be done.--GCB April 5, 1901, pp. 69, 70.
Note: In the above quotation she is giving council to continue growth of G C conferences and churches just two days after she said. . . “That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past.--GCB April 3, 1901, p. 25.”
There are altogether too many weighty responsibilities given to a few men, and some do not make God their Counselor. What do these men know of the necessities of the work in foreign countries? How can they know how to decide the questions which come to them asking for information? It would require three months for those in foreign countries to receive a response to their questions, even if there was no delay in writing.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 321 (1896).
Those living in distant countries will not do that which their judgment tells them is right unless they first send for permission to Battle Creek. Before they will advance they await Yes or No from that place.--SpT-A(9) 32 (1896).
It is not wise to choose one man as president of the General Conference. The work of the General Conference has extended, and some things have been made unnecessarily complicated. A want of discernment has been shown. There should be a division of the field, or some other plan should be devised to change the present order of things.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 342 (1896).
THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH WAS ORGANIZED IN 1863 WITH 3,500 MEMBERS, HALF A DOZEN LOCAL CONFERENCES, ABOUT THIRTY MINISTERIAL LABORERS, AND A GENERAL CONFERENCE COMMITTEE OF THREE. THE GENERAL CONFERENCE PRESIDENT WAS WELL ABLE TO PROVIDE THE LEADERSHIP AND COUNSEL REQUIRED BY SUCH A SMALL ORGANIZATION. HE COULD PERSONALLY ATTEND EVERY IMPORTANT MEETING AND IN ADDITION GIVE PERSONAL ATTENTION TO MUCH OF THE BUSINESS CONNECTED WITH THE PUBLISHING WORK. HOWEVER, BY 1896 THE WORK OF THE CHURCH HAD GREATLY EXPANDED IN THE UNITED STATES, AND EXTENDED TO EUROPE, AUSTRALIA, AND AFRICA AS WELL. IT WAS NO LONGER POSSIBLE FOR ONE MAN TO GIVE ADEQUATE SUPERVISION AND DIRECTION TO SUCH A WIDESPREADING WORK. ELLEN WHITE URGED A DIVISION OF THE FIELD, SO THAT OUR CHURCH MEMBERS AROUND THE WORLD WOULD NOT LOOK TO JUST ONE MAN FOR COUNSEL. THIS WAS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE CREATION OF UNION CONFERENCES AND WORLD DIVISIONS.
Oh, how Satan would rejoice if he could succeed in his efforts to get in among this people and disorganize the work at a time when thorough organization is essential and will be the greatest power to keep out spurious uprisings and to refute claims not endorsed by the Word of God! We want to hold the lines evenly, that there shall be no breaking down of the system of organization and order that has been built up by wise, careful labor. License must not be given to disorderly elements that desire to control the work at this time. Some have advanced the thought that, as we near the close of time, every child of God will act independently of any religious organization. But I have been instructed by the Lord that in this work there is no such thing as every man's being independent.--9T 257, 258 (1909).
You will take passages in the Testimonies that speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God's people, and you will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy. . . . Should many accept the views you advance, and talk and act upon them, we would see one of the greatest fanatical excitements that has ever been witnessed among Seventh-day Adventists. This is what Satan wants.--1SM 179 (1890).
The Lord has not given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of her. All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message. . . . know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be.--2SM 63, 68, 69 (1893)
I tell you, my brethren, the Lord has an organized body through whom He will work. . . . When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God's commandment-keeping people, when he begins to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong track.--3SM 17, 18 (1893).
We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization, for this would mean apostasy from the truth.--2SM 390
I am instructed to say to Seventh-day Adventists the world over, God has called us as a people to be a peculiar treasure unto Himself. He has appointed that His church on earth shall stand perfectly united in the Spirit and counsel of the Lord of hosts to the end of time.--2SM 397 (1908).
Let all be careful not to make an outcry against the only people who are fulfilling the description given of the remnant people, who keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus. . . . God has a distinct people, a church on earth, second to none, but superior to all in their facilities to teach the truth, to vindicate the law of God. . . . My brother, if you are teaching that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, you are wrong.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 50, 58, 59
Has God no living church? He has a church, but it is the church militant, not the church triumphant. We are sorry that there are defective members, that there are tares amid the wheat. . . . Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 45, 49 (1893).
The church militant is not the church triumphant, and earth is not heaven. The church is composed of erring, imperfect men and women, who are but learners in the school of Christ, to be trained, disciplined, educated, for this life and for the future, immortal life.--ST Jan. 4, 1883.
Some people seem to think that upon entering the church they will have their expectations fulfilled, and meet only with those who are pure and perfect. They are zealous in their faith, and when they see faults in church members, they say, "We left the world in order to have no association with evil characters, but the evil is here also;" and they ask, as did the servants in the parable, "From whence then hath it tares?" But we need not be thus disappointed, for the Lord has not warranted us in coming to the conclusion that the church is perfect; and all our zeal will not be successful in making the church militant as pure as the church triumphant.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 47 (1893).
A Statement by W. C. White
I TOLD HER [MRS. LIDA SCOTT] HOW MOTHER REGARDED THE EXPERIENCE OF THE REMNANT CHURCH, AND OF HER POSITIVE TEACHING THAT GOD WOULD NOT PERMIT THIS DENOMINATION TO SO FULLY APOSTATIZE THAT THERE WOULD BE THE COMING OUT OF ANOTHER CHURCH.--W. C. White to E. E. Andross, May 23, 1915.
The church has failed, sadly failed, to meet the expectations of her Redeemer, and yet the Lord does not withdraw Himself from His people. He bears with them still, not because of any goodness found in them, but that His name may not be dishonored before the enemies of truth and righteousness, that the satanic agencies may not triumph in the destruction of God's people. He has borne long with their waywardness, unbelief and folly. With wonderful forbearance and compassion He has disciplined them. If they will heed His instruction He will cleanse away their perverse tendencies, saving them with an everlasting salvation and making them eternal monuments of the power of His grace.--ST Nov. 13, 1901.
In the pamphlet published by Brother S. and his associates, he accuses the church of God of being Babylon, and would urge a separation from the church. This is a work that is neither honorable nor righteous. In compiling this work, they have used my name and writings for the support of that which I disapprove and denounce as error. The people to whom this pamphlet will come will charge the responsibility of this false position upon me, when it is utterly contrary to the teachings of my writings and the light which God has given me. I have no hesitancy in saying that those who are urging on this work are greatly deceived. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 36.
Those who assert that the Seventh-day Adventist churches constitute Babylon, or any part of Babylon, might better stay at home. Let them stop and consider what is the message to be proclaimed at this time. In place of working with divine agencies to prepare a people to stand in the day of the Lord, they have taken their stand with him who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God day and night. Satanic agencies have been moved from beneath, and they have inspired men to unite in a confederacy of evil, that they may perplex, harass, and cause of the people of God great distress. The whole world is to be stirred with enmity against Seventh-day Adventists, because they will not yield homage to the papacy, by honoring Sunday, the institution of this antichristian power. It is the purpose of Satan to cause them to be blotted from the earth, in order that his supremacy of the world may not be disputed. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 36.
God has a people in which all heaven is interested, and they are the one object on earth dear to the heart of God. Let everyone who reads these words give them thorough consideration, for in the name of Jesus I would press them home upon every soul. When anyone arises, either among us or outside of us, who is burdened with a message which declares that the people of God are numbered with Babylon, and claims that the loud cry is a call to come out of her, you may know that he is not bearing the message of truth. Receive him not, nor bid him Godspeed; for God has not spoken by him, neither has He given a message to him, but he has run before he was sent. The message contained in the pamphlet called the Loud Cry, is a deception. Such messages will come, and it will be claimed for them that they are sent of God, but the claim will be false; for they are not filled with light, but with darkness. There will be messages of accusation against the people of God, similar to the work done by Satan in accusing God's people, and these messages will be sounding at the very time when God is saying to His people, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee. It will be found that those who bear false messages will not have a high sense of honor and integrity. They will deceive the people, and mix up with their error the Testimonies of Sister White, and use her name to give influence to their work. They make such selections from the Testimonies as they think they can twist to support their positions, and place them in a setting of falsehood, so that their error may have weight and be accepted by the people. They misinterpret and misapply that which God has given to the church to warn, counsel, reprove, comfort, and encourage those who shall make up the remnant people of God. Those who receive the Testimonies as the message of God will be helped and blessed thereby; but those who take them in parts, simply to support some theory or idea of their own, to vindicate themselves in a course of error, will not be blessed and benefited by what they teach. To claim that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan, who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God night and day. By this misusing of the Testimonies, souls are placed in perplexity, because they cannot understand the relation of the Testimonies to such a position as is taken by those in error; for God intended that the Testimonies should always have a setting in the framework of truth. Those who advocate error will say, "The Lord saith," "when the Lord hath not spoken." They testify to falsehood, and not to truth. If those who have been proclaiming the message that the church is Babylon had used the money expended in publishing and circulating this error, in building up, instead of tearing down, they would have made it evident that they were the people whom God is leading." Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 41-43
Those who are carrying this message of error, denouncing the church as Babylon, are neglecting their God-appointed work, are in opposition to organization, in opposition to the plain command of God spoken by Malachi in regard to bringing all the tithes into the treasury of God's house, and imagine that they have a work to do in warning those whom God has chosen to forward His message of truth. These workers are not bringing greater efficiency to the cause and kingdom of God, but are engaged in a work similar to that in which the enemy of all righteousness is engaged. Let these men who are rising up against the ways and means ordained of God to forward His work in these days of peril divest themselves of all unscriptural views concerning the nature, office, and power of God's appointed agencies. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 53.
Those who have proclaimed the Seventh-day Adventist Church as Babylon, have made use of the Testimonies in giving their position a seeming support; but why is it that they did not present that which for years has been the burden of my message--the unity of the church? Why did they not quote the words of the angel, "Press together, press together, press together"? Why did they not repeat the admonition and state the principle, that "in union there is strength, in division there is weakness"? It is such messages as these men have borne that divide the church, and put us to shame before the enemies of truth; and in such messages is plainly revealed the specious working of the great deceiver, who would hinder the church from attaining unto perfection in unity. These teachers follow the sparks of their own kindling, move according to their own independent judgment, and cumber the truth with false notions and theories. They refuse the counsel of their brethren, and press on in their own way until they become just what Satan would desire to have them--unbalanced in mind. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 56.
"My brother, I learn that you are taking the position that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, and that all that would be saved must come out of her. You are not the only man the devil has deceived in this matter. For the last forty years, one man after another has arisen, claiming that the Lord has sent him with the same message; but let me tell you, as I have told them, that this message you are proclaiming is one of the satanic delusions designed to create confusion among the churches. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 58,59
"My brother, if you are teaching that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, you are wrong, God has not given you any such message to bear. Satan will use every mind to which he can attain access, inspiring men to originate false theories or go off on some wrong tangent, that he may create a false excitement, and thus divert souls from the true issue for this time. I presume that some may be deceived by your message, because they are full of curiosity and desire for some new thing. It makes me feel sad indeed that you should be deceived in any way by the suggestions of the enemy; for I know the theory that you are advocating is not truth. In advancing the ideas you do, you will do great injury to yourself and to others. Do not seek to misinterpret, and twist, and pervert the Testimonies to substantiate any such message of error. Many have passed over this ground, and have done great harm. As others have started up full of zeal to proclaim this message, again and again, I have been shown that it was not truth. I understand that you are also proclaiming that we should not pay tithe. My brother, take 'off thy shoes from off thy feet;' for the place whereon you are standing is holy ground. The Lord has spoken in regard to paying tithes. He has said, 'Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in Mine house, and prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.' But while He pronounces a blessing upon those who bring in their tithes, He pronounces a curse upon those who withhold them. Very recently I have had direct light from the Lord upon this question, that many Seventh-day Adventists were robbing God in tithes and offerings, and it was plainly revealed to me that Malachi has stated the case as it really is. Then how dare any man even think in his heart that a suggestion to withhold tithes and offerings is from the Lord? Where, my brother, have you stepped out of the path? Oh, get your feet back in the straight path again. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 59,60
"It is our individual duty to walk humbly with God. We are not to seek any strange, new message. We are not to think that the chosen ones of God who are trying to walk in the light compose Babylon. The fallen denominational churches are Babylon. Babylon has been fostering poisonous doctrines, the wine of error. This wine of error is made up of false doctrines, such as the natural immortality of the soul, the eternal torment of the wicked, the denial of the pre-existence of Christ prior to His birth in Bethlehem, and advocating and exalting the first day of the week above God's holy and sanctified day. These and kindred errors are presented to the world by the various churches, and thus the Scriptures are fulfilled that say, 'For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.' It is a wrath which is created by false doctrines, and when kings and presidents drink this wine of the wrath of her fornication, they are stirred with anger against those who will not come into harmony with the false and satanic heresies which exalt the false sabbath, and lead men to trample underfoot God's memorial.Fallen angels upon earth form confederations with evil men. In this age antichrist will appear as the true Christ, and then the law of God will be fully made void in the nations of our world. Rebellion against God's holy law will be fully ripe. But the true leader of all this rebellion is Satan clothed as an angel of light. Men will be deceived and will exalt him to the place of God, and deify him. But Omnipotence will interpose, and to the apostate churches that unite in the exaltation of Satan, the sentence will go forth, 'Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 61,62.
For further study please read Testimonies to Ministers p. 32-62 and PLEASE READ TESTIMONIES VOLUME 9 section 8 p. 245-261 the chapters called, “Faithful Stewardship” and “Spirit of Independence.” available at www.ellenwhite.com
